Interview with Karen Stewart, NSA whistleblower and TI (from Rense Radio Network interview, Nov. 18, 2016)
Part I: The American Hamster Cage
Jeff Rense: We’re going to learn something very unsettling as we begin a conversation with Karen Stewart. Karen Stewart is a whistleblower who had a career with the NSA for 28 years. And she found something that wasn’t right and reported it through the proper channels. And we’re going to hear a story that you probably won’t believe.
But if you look under Google research engine for whistleblowers, many of you will find things that just aren’t being talked about. Let me just read some of the headers on some of these Google stories:
“Six brave government whistleblowers charged under the Espionage Act by the Obama Administration”
“Obama’s war on whistleblowers leaves administration insiders untouched but lower level employees go to jail”
CNNs Tapper: “Obama has used the Espionage Act more than all previous Presidents. On leaked prosecutions, Obama takes it to 526 whistleblowers”
A Counter Punch article headline: “Mouths Wide Shut: Obama’s War on Whistle-Blowers”
A Mother Jones article headline: “Obama has sentenced whistleblowers to 31 times the jail time of all Presidents together in American history.”
So what’s the deal? In many cases, whistleblowers are answering the highest call of patriotic Americans. They’ve seen corruption, they’ve seen wrong doing and criminal behavior and they want people to know. Now why has Obama tried to crush the life out of so many people who have simply tried to bring these things forward, through correct channels in many cases, they don’t just go to the press? And they get smashed. What’s going on? Why is this happening?
Karen Stewart, welcome to the program, thank you for being here.
Karen Stewart: Thank you Mr. Rense, for having me. I appreciate it.
Rense: This whole war on whistleblowers… I guess Obama pretty much put the petal to the metal about eight years ago. A lot of good people have gone to prison. But there are a lot of others who didn’t go to prison, didn’t get jail time, weren’t necessarily put on trial, but who are suffering mightily, some to the extent that they’ve actually committed suicide. They are being punished. They are being abused. The term for what they are going through is “gang stalking.” That’s for openers. But it gets worse than that.
Let’s go back to the beginning. How did you get involved with the NSA? That’s pretty heady organization to land in? How did you get in there. 28 years!
Stewart: Well, it is. My father was Air Force intelligence. And I developed an interest in foreign languages. I was fascinated with how they were constructed and spoken. And I ended up studying multiple foreign languages and then seeking out a means by which to use this interest and grow. And an uncle who also was in Air Force intelligence suggested that I apply to the National Security Agency. Which I did. And I was accepted for employment in 1982. I passed all of their rigorous background tests, intelligence (IQ) tests, and psychological tests. No criminal record whatsoever, etc etc., and I began my career with them in 1982.
Rense: You were what they call a “nugget” for them. A prodigy. And you had a clean record, which is getting hard to find these days. They must have been very happy with you in the beginning.
Stewart: Well, actually during one of my initial interviews, the woman who was interviewing me said to me: “We know people your age have all done drugs. But if you just tell us that you won’t do them while you work for us, then it will be OK, you just sign a contract saying you’ll never do it.”
I said: “No problem, I’ve never done it, I don’t smoke and I don’t drink, and I’ve never experimented with drugs.”
And she essentially called me a liar and said: “You’re going to polygraph next. And we’ll just see about that.” And I passed with flying colors and she had to eat her words.
Rense: That’s funny. I guess it’s funny. What happens if you sign the contract? Is that the end of it or is that a trick?
Stewart: As far as I know, it’s just admitting that you did this or that that they don’t like. And that you won’t do it again or they can fire you. If they find even that you smoked one joint of marijuana on a weekend they can fire you if you promised to never do that. So I think that’s kind of an insurance policy. Plus, because they were just not finding people who were clean anymore.
Rense: Right. In the NSA, you are given a security clearance of some level right away and then you work your way up, is that how it goes?
Stewart: Within a year. They were giving me extensive background checks and they were giving thorough pre-job training. And within that year you had your background thoroughly vetted. Every so often they found something in someone’s background and they told them ‘thanks but no thanks, you’re gone.’ By the second year I was working for them, I had attained pretty much a top-secret clearance because of the area that they wanted me to go into.
Rense: Which was?
Stewart: Generally, Russian military.
Rense: The idea here is that the NSA (‘No Such Agency’) has its tentacles everywhere on the planet virtually, as I understand it. There’s nothing that will elude their interests. If they want something, they’re going to get in there. Is that true?
Stewart: Well, I’ll tell you one of the things that I learned when I was working there that rather shocked me. One of the people said NSA has a mole in the office in every Senator and Congressman that they are interested in.
Rense: There you go. Not mention the CIA having a mole in every major newspaper, radio and television network station. They control it. They don’t even need that many people anymore. I think the control now is refined. This goes back to Operation Northwoods in the 1950’s (sic, Operation Mockingbird), when the CIA bragged that they could put any story they wanted in any major newspaper in a matter of hours, or less. And that was before the age of electronics.
Let me get to the punch line here: The amount of control and penetration and knowledge that the NSA and CIA have exerted over this culture and our society would probably be unbelievable to most people. Is that fair?
Stewart: I think you are probably right and people would be horrifically alarmed. And they need to be.
Rense: Absolutely. That’s what I’ve been doing here for almost 24 years now. Trying to help people understand that the world around them is not what they see.
It’s all an issue of a perception game. If people think and believe what they are seeing is real, and it works for them…. most people don’t push it. But it’s a whole different thing when you pull the curtain back, what you see back there is often horrifying. It’s often that grim. And the amount of influence that they can exert is probably astonishing. These agencies have basically everything on everyone that would be of interest to them. And that’s their insurance. They vetted you. They’ve got it.
Stewart: Well, post-9/11, especially, was bad. After that, I would say that most people don’t know that the National Security Agency’s charter originally said that they were supposed to only gather information and so on on foreigners on foreign soil. Any foreigner who was considered a threat or terrorist who came to America- the NSA was supposed to turn everything over the to the FBI. This was because the NSA has no jurisdiction over Americans, or they didn’t until 9/11.
Rense: That’s right, not formally. But now, from my perspective, there are probably no boundaries to the NSA and their surveillance anymore. They do what they want.
Stewart: Yes. What they are doing is they are basically using the same type of spy technology and spy protocol on Americans that they were only supposed to use on foreigners overseas. But the problem is they’re not getting caught. They are not getting caught so they are doing it anyway.
Rense: Well, who’s to hold them accountable, Karen? When they have so much on everybody else anyway? The person catching them certainly has issues in their past and the NSA could use that, could it not, easily, to turn them around?
Stewart: Well, I have called and actually asked this of several different agencies. And I get the response… the FBI. But then I happen to know that the FBI pretty much does whatever the NSA tells them to do. So there is no one (to hold the NSA accountable).
Rense: And then we have the DOJ- which is pretty much a joke- the “Department of Jokes” now. What an obscenity that has turned into.
Stewart: It absolutely has.
Rense: I don’t know how we can, and I’ve tried to do this for a long time, educate Americans about the nation, the Republic, that they live in. Actually, it’s a corporatocracy. It’s a big corporation, it’s a big company. The company they live in. What do Americans really need to know about all this? Or are most Americans just looked upon, as Henry Kissinger once said, as “useless eaters.” (The complete quote is: “The elderly are useless eaters.” Henry A. Kissinger).
Stewart: That’s horrible. I would say that if I were cut off in a minute or two, the one thing I would like to tell people is that the Homeland Security network is something of an obscene joke. You are being played for fools. Basically, there are thousands upon thousands of people who are on the “Terrorist Watch List” who are only there to bloat the list and to make you think that you are in danger. And under President George W. Bush, the FBI went to every single state it could and started something with their law enforcement agencies, a vigilante-civilian group. They are supposed to be hyper-patriots. Well, they are not hyper patriots.
They are being played for fools. They are being paid to stalk and harass people they are told are threats or terrorists. And in the vast majority of cases these people are innocent, randomly-chosen people to be thrown on the terrorist watch list. And very often they are whistleblowers or somebody someone powerful has a personal vendetta against. And so Infra-Gard and these other types of, expose me for saying this, what the Soviets used to call the peasants, “useful idiots,” are helping destroy the lives of patriots and some of the nicest people and best people that we have.
Rense: And yet these people you are describing, unless they are mentally imbalanced, and there are probably some of those, actually think that they are being patriotic. That’s the trick, correct?
Stewart. Well, it is. And if you think about common sense, these people are violating these other people’s rights, the victim’s rights. There is no Fourth Amendment. They are being secretly accused of something by the government, without any proof, without any witnesses. And then they are having a non-deputized, non-legal, non-law enforcement group of vigilante fascists stalk, harass, and vandalize them. These people get thrown out of their apartments. They lose their jobs. They get black-balled from any kind of job. I spoke to a man who lives on a nature path between a couple of Florida cities. He comes into town to get food stamps and then he goes back and he camps out there. And when he comes into each little town along the path police find him and spit on him.
Rense: It’s that bad. Karen, that is over the top crazy.
Stewart: I believe him from what I’ve experienced and from speaking to a hundred people. This is typical. And this is all for money. This is not for anybody’s security.
Rense: It is a paid militia of thugs, is what you are telling me, operating under the guise of patriotic duty, privilege, and opportunity. They want to serve their country but they get paid. And they’ll do anything they are told to, without regard for morals or anything we would normally use as parameters and boundaries. They just have none. This national organization of vigilante thugs was, again, created by George W. Bush, after 9/11. How many people are perpetrators, tens of thousands?
Stewart: Well, at least that many. If you think about each person who is targeted and harassed day in and day out. And I don’t know of anyone who has really gotten out of the program. So there are people who make their living doing this.
Now the first layer of people that they call in would be Infra-Gard or somebody who fools himself themselves into thinking that somehow denying someone of their Fourth Amendment rights is good for the nation. But then when they start getting into dog poisoning, pet mutilation, car vandalism, hit and run…..
Rense: That’s why I said earlier that some of them are mentally unbalanced. They’re crazy.
Stewart: Well, they do drill down into a criminal class. Now the Infra-Gard, to some degree, think they are just following. And there are two sets of people in Infra-Gard. They will assign somebody, let’s say you (the TI) have got 15 people assigned to you per day to follow you around into stores, all around town, by car. And then those people (the “perps”) are reporting their every whereabouts and they are saying; “Oh she bought eggs, Oh, she bought a wrench.” And they are calling it in to a central location.
But you’ve also got people who are just sitting around basically minding their own business, but if they happen to see you then they grab their phone and go to a certain social network where they go through pictures and pictures of people and then they report: Here’s the person, here’s Jim Smith, he’s on this list.
“I’m going to text in and say he’s at Dr. Jones’ office. It’s 3:45 and he’s at the doctor’s office. And I’ll get $100.”
I have actually approached these people and said, “What are you doing?” Are you getting paid to do this?”
And one gentlemen, and I use that term loosely, told me, he was bragging to me.
He said, “Yes, the FDLE (Florida Department of Law Enforcement) recruits us, and then if we happen to see a “targeted person,” and he nodded toward me, we call in their location and their time, and we get $100 on our account.”
And I said: “Do people care that a lot, if not all, of the people who are targeted are innocent people and they have not been accused of any real crime. It’s fabricated and it’s used to bloat the number people on the terrorist watch list.’
And he smiled and said: “Nobody cares. It’s money.”
Rense. Well, I’m not surprised to hear that. This whole national organization…. You’re calling it Infra-Gard (sic: Infra-Gard is just one of many private companies led by ex-FBI officials that is conducting and cashing in on this program.) It’s a bogus patriot militia that goes far beyond simple surveilling of people. It harms them. It breaks into their homes. And Karen Stewart is a victim.
That’s what is called gang stalking. A gang of people, maybe 15 or 20, in her immediate community, in her town, will watch her or others. And she has never been formally charged with anything in a court of law. Many aren’t. They are just doing what they think is the right thing, truly the right thing to do, for the country.
You’ve just said so much that’s crucial to people understanding what they’re in. We’re not in a free society. We are living in a hamster cage. We’re fed and watered and watched and given a wheel to run on. And that’s about it. We’ve got 100 million people out of work now, they’re out of the job market, they’ve got no jobs. I don’t suppose you’re holding your breath over Donald Trump and his plans to role all of this back. But any progress in that regard will certainly be appreciated by those who are out of luck, you might say.
Let me go back to the DHS. It’s a fraud organization, out of control, with 4.5 billion rounds of ammunition, much of it hollow point ammunition that they try to tell us it is for target practice. Which it is not. It’s for target elimination, as in murder. They are expecting big trouble. Now they build these lists, no fly lists, terrorist watch lists, with a lot of people who are completely innocent. They have no reason to be on these lists whatsoever. And we’ve seen stories about people on the no-fly list that shouldn’t be there. And good luck getting off those lists.
This is all a contrived bureaucracy to keep the DHS feeding at the trough, engorging itself with tax dollars, or other dollars that are created out of thin air. And these people are psychopaths, some of them. They have to be.
Stewart: I would agree with your assessment. In fact, if you read about the Department of Homeland Security, you will find something shocking. They went to experts to help them design the operations of Department of Homeland Security and these experts, one at least was from the (Soviet) KGB, and another one was from the old East German secret police, the Stasi.
And that is very important because there was something that the Stasi did to their own people, their own dissidents, in the 1980’s. It was psychological warfare and the German word for it is “Zersetzung,” which literally means “decomposition.” What does this mean? It means that you take every part of that person’s life (and in their respect, it was a dissident), you take every part of their life and you destroy it. You destroy their job, their ability to make money, you destroy their relationships, you destroy their health, you destroy their mental health, you destroy their reputation. And what the goal was was to force these dissidents into a position of either dying and starving on the street with nobody helping him or her or committing suicide.
Rense: Please, dear friends, listen carefully to this program again. And understand. You are not living in the land of the free and the home of the brave at all.
Part 2 of Rense-Stewart Interview (11/20/16)
Jeff Rense & Karen Stewart – NSA Stalking…Part 2